Should we solve other people problems?

[OTrieger]

Hello community,

I'm interested to know what is your opinion about this topic.

If I'm solving other people problems am I really helping that person?

And why.

Looking forward for some insights from you.

Kind regards,
Oren

[OTrieger]

When reading it try to look at it from a professional point of view and refrain yourself to look as if it personally attacking you!

The wrong thing to do will be to solve other people problems!

Why, because it is your solution and not their and it will bring to a non problem solution attitude, that is the sad story about it. So look at the broader view and not those exceptions that are an outliers.

The first thing that someone is posting and asking for help, we need to ask him "what have you done so far to solve that issue?" Or "what can be done about it?" Or "what are your thoughts about how to solve it?"

In other words passing the ball back to the person so use his mind to find a solution.

If you really want to help that person, you want him to cope with what he is facing that will bring to a development, learning curve.

I'm sure that in many cases the people did not even bothered solve it.

If you really want to help someone give him to deal with the issue, try find ways how to get it solved. None of us know everything so at some point of time assistance is needed. Asking to get help is not a weakness!!! But I'm sure that if you will ask for assistance you would try what you can do to solve it and you will have most of it developed, now only additional guidance is needed to get it fully solved.

Sharing WFs with other is not a competition if you can build a solution, I'm sure that you can, but it is about development and building a problem solving attitude.

Add do not stick to exceptions, yes there are always exceptions and sometimes you will need to share a WF, but this is an exception.

Focus on the big picture and send the ball back to the person so he will at least do some actions trying to solve it, by failing the person will learn much more than from getting a ready WF from you! 

It is not about been liked by others, like never brought anyone anywhere, it is about skills and competence, and respect. 

There is one way to solve problem and it is to go through it!!! The minute that the person will solve his own problems he will feel victorious!!! Anything else will lead to the opposite. 

Do not stick to exceptions. You want to help others, help them to grow and be stronger!

[caltang]

I agree with your sentiment. Basically you are enforcing teaching someone how to fish rather than to fish.

The nature of forums like this is to supply questions and answers that can be viewed not just by the one who raised the question, but by others who may have similar questions. Seeing a workflow and explanation may be helpful to others when they are solving something, and I still think sharing workflows is a good thing.

If a user is lazy and just keeps asking someone else for help, then we should call them out for getting free service for their jobs they are paid for. I have done so in the past - and users stopped. 

It also means users have to come prepared with something, and see what they tried. Some users are more visual, hence the need for the workflow. Some just need written instructions. The list goes on.

I think the current model should continue - whereby people ask questions and people supply answers/discussions/thought points. If there is an abuse of the system, then some action should be taken to stop users from doing so, especially if they are paid to do a job and short cutting it. 

The same model is applied to StackOverflow etc. I think that also gives the Maveryx Alteryx Community its appeal - being a hub for great ideas from days past to now.

[CoG]

The simplest answer is yes, providing a solution to someone's problem does help them. I do agree that people should strive to solve their problems to the best of their ability before posting about it, and that this approach will best support their learning. Discernment must also be exercised with regard to how much information is shared for educational purposes. If @caltang posts a question, for example, I know it is a thoughtful one that he has worked on because I have seen his work and know that he is good. In a case like that I might just post a workflow without context, or a short description for an approach he could try. 

That being said, to @caltang 's point, this is a community forum, and many other individuals may have the same question. Providing an efficient means to identify the solution to a particular problem is valuable, whereas taking the time to ask someone who has already had an opportunity to share their prior approach and chose not to provide that level of detail, which itself could be for multiple reasons:

1. They've tried nothing for themselves
2. They do not know where to start
3. They have tried to solve the problem for themselves, and don't want to confuse other's by sharing what hasn't worked
4. They have made many attempts and searched for a while, and are not able to identify what subset of that information would be valuable to share.
5. etc.

takes more time, and risks that a useful solution may not be shared at all. People, who are trying to steal the work of others are out there and aren't going to be bothered to "learn" anyway. They ought to be confronted, and assistance to those individuals should be limited to encourage professional conduct.

When a workflow is shared, it should be paired with enough information to teach the user how the workflow runs/why certain design choices were made. This can be in the form of comments in the workflow or a description of the workflow's functionality in the forum post. Similarly, since we usually work with sample data, adjustments may need to be made to the workflow anyway, which gives the user an opportunity to configure a working workflow to tailor it to their more specific needs. At this point, I would prefer to encourage people to make progress on their own as much as they can (since broader usefulness to the community becomes more limited at this point).

I most enjoy helping those who want to help themselves. Unfortunately, those individuals may only be reading a particular post looking for a solution to a question that has plagued them, ready to dissect and investigate a workflow that accomplishes what they could not.

I believe that we should point people to the best resource to answer the question presented, whether that's:

1. A workflow
2. A comment that directs them toward the solution
3. A link to a prior community post
4. A link to a learning module or even weekly challenge that matches their problem statement.

[OTrieger]

Thanks you both!

If you would like help you can share instead a snippet of your WF so the person will have some visual understanding how it looks, let him figure out the rest.

Yes, this is a community, and when checking people posts you can see that they were not bothering Googling their problems as if they do they would encounter in earlier similar posts, and unfortunate these are the MAJORITY of the posts. They are differ a bit but that what you would like from the people, find similar problems and see how they can use that solution.

The things that this is not only something relating to Alteryx Community, that is the norm in our culture these days. It is enough to see the ads on the media... hard work become a dirty work. I even hear that phrase do not work hard work smarter... You see hard work and smart work are not contradicting each other, but that phrase do implies it.

If you would like to have people that can think out of the box, in other work work smarter, they must be competent in their area, in order to be competent one must be able to learn and understand what he learns! In order to work smarter one needs to work hard to get to that point to get there to be able to do so.

Therefore let the people to work their way and deal with their problems, let them sweat, learn, guide them through their path, but do not do their job, do not solve their problem.

Just think about yourself how did you get there to master your knowledge.

It is not about been likes or get likes for your posts, but all about how to help the person in a way that he will learn and could apply it, as that is the most important aspect of learning that ability to apply what you just learn!!! And the minute that you learned something and cannot apply it then you did not fully understand what you learned so you by golly find out what you do not understand and get it clear for your own sake!

So by providing people a done WF you did not solve the real problem! As you did not help the person solve what he did not understand and that is the point here. HE MUST BE ABLE TO APPLY WHAT HE LEARNED AND IF HE CANNOT THEN THERE IS SOMETHING THAT HE DID NOT FULLY UNDERSTAND!

You want to help him, then help him find what he does not understand and get him clear it up. 

[OllieClarke]

Gotta agree with @caltang and @CoG we should be answering people's questions and providing solutions on this forum. We should strive to annotate/explain our solutions though to make it as easy as possible to learn from them. That doesn't mean that we should be doing people's jobs for them, but we shouldn't let a very small minority change our good-faith assumptions.
I also don't see a problem with someone coming to this forum asking a question and getting an answer. That's surely a legitimate use? Of course we can point them towards the learning materials available here as part of that answer, but I'd be pretty annoyed if every time I asked a question, I got a link to a learning path instead of an answer...

[OTrieger]

@OllieClarke 
I also don't see a problem with someone coming to this forum asking a question and getting an answer. - me neither.

What I'm writing down does not contradict it.

Yes, this forum is the place where to get answers.

I'm only pointing out that the nature of the answer. There can be an answer that will get the person learn and obtain the needed knowledge and one that will not.

As per what I understand we would like to help the guys learn and be able to solve things with Alteryx. The only question is does we do it or not, or partially.

What will be the correct way, to walk the person through the path or just drop the solution on him and say "here you go!"

It is not about being "nice" or not, it is about do I really helped him or not.

"I'd be pretty annoyed if every time I asked a question, I got a link to a learning path instead of an answer" - why would you be annoyed? You asked a question and someone referring you to the place where you can find the answer. Well you will need to do something to get that answer, and I can remind your attention that I mention turning people to be lazy. Being annoyed from getting guidance that is laziness!!! Sorry, but if people expect to get a ready WF each time that they are posting a question, that is laziness.

If someone wants to be a Pro he will want to have the knowledge so he can do it himself. None of the people here have Alteryx just because that they are bored and does not have anything to do but spent money on Alteryx license just for the fan. 

So if they are planning to deliver solutions for their clients, or if working in a company for their employees, they should get the knowledge and know how to do it.

It seems to me from the above responds, that I'm the only one that really care about the people as I'm trying to get them developed and learn so they could be competent. It is really about if you are "nice" or trying to be "liked" by others. It is really about how you can help the person so he will develop himself.

[OllieClarke]

@OTrieger different people can post in different ways and that's okay. 

I personally find your approach of writing out steps harder to follow compared to a screenshot of a documented workflow with an explanation, but others might disagree. 

Everyone on this thread agrees that simply posting a workflow with no comment/explanation to a question is less desirable than posting a solution with an explanation and I definitely don't think it's fair to say that neither @caltang @CoG or I care about the Maveryx community however.

[OTrieger]

@OllieClarke 

I totally in agreement with you about sharing snippets, that is always helpful.

If you would not care about others you probably will not share your ideas with others. I guess I should have used here a different wordings.

You are an ACE, it took you time and learning to get there! All I'm saying help the guys to get the knowledge to be able to get the end product instead of providing the end product itself...

[apathetichell]

@OTrieger - as I mentioned on your last post relating to this - I do not think the problem on this forum are the answers. The problem is the questions, what the posters expect, and how little effor they put into fixing their own problems. I don't really care if someone posts a full workflow or describes the steps. We (presumably) have jobs. We do this as volunteers. It's not for me to tell someone answering a questions that they should have described the steps - or linked to learning - instead of posting a workflow. If Alteryx has an opinion on this - they can hire staff/moderate these forums and do that.