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Alter Everything

A podcast about data science and analytics culture.
Alteryx Alumni (Retired)

Never. Stop. Learning. Hear from two self-taught Alteryx learners, turned full-time Alteryx career champs as they share their secrets for getting ahead.









Episode Transcription

MADDIE: 00:02

[music] Welcome to Alter Everything, a podcast about data science and analytics culture. I'm Maddie Johannsen, and as we like to mix things up on this podcast, I pass my hosting mic to my friend Annie Mais. Annie leads the education programs under the Alteryx for Good umbrella, and she is super passionate about getting the power of Alteryx into the hands of the next generation of data thinkers.

ANNIE: 00:24

And we see students younger and younger all the time trying to get involved, so it's very exciting.

MADDIE: 00:30

Annie sat down with Alteryx ACE Heather Harris who is the practice director for data science and analytics for PK Global, one of Alteryx's premier partners.

HEATHER: 00:39

It has been a couple of years since I've been on the podcast, so it's really a delight to be back. And I started my career in Silicon Valley designing computer chips. I actually went back for a mid-career masters in data science and information management. And that's where I really came to loving data, going back to my mathematical days of statistics.

MADDIE: 01:04

Heather and Annie were joined by Cameron O'Donnell, a tax consultant who is loving being able to use Alteryx in their day-to-day.

CAMERON: 01:12

Originally, I started off at a small private school in upstate New York where I was studying physics. From there, I took up the study of accounting and ended up loving it. I actually learned Alteryx at university while studying accounting, and I was able to transition Alteryx into my internship, which eventually led to a full-time job.

MADDIE: 01:35

Cameron and Heather both have a really unique experience in which they each use their Alteryx knowledge as a real catalyst to advance their careers. So for anyone out there who's looking to land that internship, snag a promotion, or in general just upskill in order to mix things up at work and inspire your team, this episode is full of tips on how to get there. So here is your host Annie Mais.

ANNIE: 02:01

Okay. Are you guys ready?

HEATHER: 02:03

I'm ready.

CAMERON: 02:04

Awesome. Let's do it.

ANNIE: 02:06

Let's do it. [music] Heather, I actually listened to the very first podcast that you did, earlier today, and I think you mentioned in one of your previous roles helping teach individuals at organizations about data science and kind of blending data science with actual roles at companies. So switching gears a little bit into the career aspect of this conversation, what has data and analytics looked like career-wise for both of you outside of the education space, and what has it meant to you personally?

HEATHER: 02:42

Well, I'll go ahead and start with that. I mean, for me personally, it was starting to use data-- even as a computer chip designer, we had large-scale data that we were using to design these chips and not realizing that big data was a thing because back then it wasn't really called big data. But then moving into how to solve business problems with data, everyday things, whether it'd be an HR or communications or marketing, and really seeing that data is the fabric of almost everything we do these days. And one of the pieces of passion that I have that you may have even heard on that first podcast is really not just folks like Cameron and I who come from technology and math backgrounds but people who don't come from technical backgrounds at all and helping them. And that's a big part of my data journey, is helping what are traditionally non-data people to become data people. And that's where technology like Alteryx really comes into play in developing that team sport of data or team sport of data science, as I like to call it, and bringing together the diversity and richness of a lot of different skill sets into data practices.

ANNIE: 04:05

Yeah. No. That's really interesting. And I'm wondering too, Cameron, just in practice data science and analytics, what it is meant from that original education pivot now into your career. If you can talk a little bit about that, I think that will help kind of frame the story a little bit better.

CAMERON: 04:25

Yeah. So I work in tax consulting. So in the tax profession, especially if you're coming directly out of school, it's a very, very exciting time to enter the professional world. And the reason for that is because data and analytics is becoming more and more necessary. So programs like Alteryx allow students to enter their professional careers and instantly make a difference. And in turn, you get on some really awesome projects, and you become a key Alteryx resource on those projects. Because when you're a student and you enter the professional marketplace, you bring excitement, right? You bring hard work and the new way of thinking. So when you combine all of these things with a self-service data analytics platform like Alteryx, you instantly add value, and you're able to propel your career forward and solve some of the industry's most challenging problems.

ANNIE: 05:29

I'm wondering in hearing that-- it just got me excited. Can you talk about some of the problems, just in a broad sense, that you're able to take on because of the skill set you've gained over time in data science?

HEATHER: 05:42

Well, how is it that someone gets into data, to begin with? How did that look for folks like me? And I think we all can relate to the ubiquitous Excel spreadsheet. And I think all of us at some point in our job or our roles tend to come across Excel. And that's really a good thought process for where do you start or where have I started in seeing the different opportunities in data. So the kind of projects I work on span all across companies. So you can think of, say, customer data. So if you have customers, you usually have lots of data by your customers. And how can you actually start looking at that in a bigger way by looking at like what's the average customer spend, or how much time does the average customer spend on my website? And if you can start thinking about those kind of questions, those are the kind of things that lead you to the data underneath that lead to those answers. And really anyone in a company will probably start seeing there's data in front of them that they can start with as well or even in a university.

ANNIE: 06:58

Yeah. That makes sense. And so I want to turn to Cameron actually because I believe you received one of the free Alteryx for Good designer licenses that's available through our program, but you actually used that prior to any internship or any career move you made. Is that correct?

CAMERON: 07:15

Yes. Yes. Correct. Upon getting the Alteryx for Good license as a student, I just dove right into it. Right? So again, the Alteryx Community has world-class educational videos which really helped me not only understand Alteryx but also understand data. And so throughout my coursework, I would actually use Alteryx and try to apply it. I remember talking about Alteryx in various classrooms to students as I was learning about it, and there was just general excitement around the use of technology in the accounting profession.

ANNIE: 07:54

Yeah. That's awesome. Gosh, we have so many now highly engaged educators and students who, I mean, from the educator side, are using Alteryx to supplement curriculum and then, from the student side, are either finding out about it in class or have somehow stumbled upon Community or Alteryx, the home page even, to find out how they can learn more. But I'm wondering was it part of the coursework for you in accounting, or was it something that you found on your own originally?

CAMERON: 08:24

So Alteryx was not required in my coursework. But again, technologies of all varieties are encouraged by faculties across the nation, so. I actually found Alteryx after asking to skip an audit class to meet with a professional. And I asked him a very important question, "How can I get ahead?" [music] And his reply to me was, "You should look into Alteryx." And from that moment on, that's when I started to learn Alteryx and to really understand data and analytics. And now when I go back to universities, I get that very same question. Students come to and they say, "Hey, how can I get ahead?" Involving Alteryx and the use of Alteryx. And I like to quote one of my favorite authors Mark Twain, and I tell them the secret of getting ahead is to get started, right? Download Alteryx, watch those videos in between your courses, and really just jump right into being a citizen data analyst.

ANNIE: 09:43

Yeah. That's great. And Heather, I'm wondering what that looks like just from the career side. Are you experiencing, or have you seen kind of that uptick in incoming employees who maybe are fresh out of school with the skill set, or how is that skill set marketed or desired from an organization standpoint?

HEATHER: 10:06

Definitely. If I see someone has Alteryx course certification, that tells me a lot right there that they have a basic understanding of data, that they have some tools in their toolbox that can help them be effective right away and quickly contribute to the company. Another area that I really see as being powerful is internships themselves. So I am such a strong believer in the power of Alteryx on elevating your career that I have led programs for 30, 40, 50 interns at a time to say, "Hey, I want to introduce you to this technology and what it can do for you and your career," and have seen some great successes there. But the thing if you're a college student or early in your career, really anywhere in your career, I'm listening to this-- the really cool thing is you can try Alteryx. You can get course-certified on-- which is really just learning the 20 most common tools that people use in Alteryx. And once you know those, you become really powerful. And then you have-- I call the course certification-- you're LinkedIn worthy. You can put that certification up on your LinkedIn profile, and people actively look for it.

HEATHER: 11:28

I wrote a blog about this back in December about how to use your Alteryx badassery to, I think, elevate your career and brand. At that time, I searched LinkedIn for how many job postings there were for companies looking for Alteryx. And it was staggering. I can't remember the exact number, but it was huge how many companies specifically put it in their job posting that they're looking for that. And like Cameron mentioned, this is free for people to go and get this certification and learn this skill. And if you're a university student and you have access to the software as well through Alteryx for Good, it's such a great leg-up in getting your career started.

ANNIE: 12:20

Yeah. And I want to talk about internships a little bit more. But before I do that, I just want to hear from both of you guys-- in terms of preparing for course certification, if you guys could tell students or anyone preparing for it what it takes, how would you describe that experience and how you prepare for course certification?

CAMERON: 12:40

To prepare for the course certification, I think it takes a lot of hard work, right, also a lot of interest, right, for you to explore the many different facets of Alteryx and utilizing the Community resources such as again the training videos, right, the learning paths as well as the weekly challenges. So these are some of the best ways for you to familiarize yourself with many different tools that are used throughout an Alteryx process.

ANNIE: 13:12

Yeah. I've actually recently just created both an educator playbook and a student playbook just to help young people get started with bringing Alteryx to supplement their curriculum or their studies and have definitely included the weekly challenges. I think those are just a fun way to kind of get your feet on with the tool in that prep for course certification. Heather, I'm wondering, just from your perspective, if you could give any insight or advice to course certification, what you might say to someone who is just now hearing about it.

HEATHER: 13:41

Sure. Absolutely. And this is where you'll hear me as the eternal optimist come in where I'll be like, "Oh, it's easy. You can do it. Anyone can do it." But I really do believe that it is very accessible. And the good news and the bad news - and it's actually all good news - is that the Alteryx Community provides so many resources to help you get certified. Now, why I kind of joke that's the bad news is there are so many resources, so how do you pick? Well, I'm more of a visual learner, kinesthetic learner. And if you go into the Alteryx Academy section of the Community, there is a subsection called Certification. You can actually see-- on that page, it will show the different certifications you can get. And then there's different details down the page.

HEATHER: 14:36

And my favorite way to learn is there is a video series. There's four videos with interactive lessons that help you get certified. And that's my best learning style. And everyone is a little bit different that way. But I feel like if you go through these four one-hour videos, put some hands-on time in, and it provides everything you need, then that equips you. And what I tell people is don't be afraid to fail. Almost everyone I know has failed taking the certification exam their first time. And in fact, what I tell my employees who are getting certified is-- after they maybe put about a week of effort in, I make them take the exam anyway. I know that they're not feeling ready, or they may not be ready, but when you take that exam, it actually illuminates where you need to put your focus so you're not putting a ton of focus into areas that you've already mastered. So that's my best tips. And there is a PDF certification guide as well. And if you open that guide up, it tells you the 20 tools you need to learn, and it has little micro-lessons for each one of those. So for people like me who are busy and might want just micro-lessons, that's another really great way to go. And again, don't be afraid to fail. You can retake that exam as many times as you need till you passed. And it's free, completely free.

ANNIE: 16:09

Yeah. That's great advice. And I think we can put in the show notes for this too just some links to some of those resources because, again, Community is the place to start if you want to learn anything Alteryx-related. But then moving towards course certification, I can't speak more highly of those resources you just mentioned but then the weekly challenges themselves. Cameron, I'm really interested-- we touched upon it for a second, but I wanted to circle back about your internship experience. And were you course-certified prior to your internship?

CAMERON: 16:38

Yes. Yes. So I was actually advanced-certified prior to the internship.

ANNIE: 16:43

And that was just-- sorry, go ahead.

CAMERON: 16:46

Oh, no. You're good.

ANNIE: 16:47

I was just going to say, was that something that you worked towards on your own and outside of coursework then to become course-certified?

CAMERON: 16:55

Yeah. Yeah. So throughout about an eight-month period, I had started on Alteryx, and I became course-certified and then started working towards the advanced certification. And when you're a student and you don't come from a data science background, the advanced certification could be quite challenging. It explores concepts such as batch macros, iterative macros, and spatial analytics. And this is really where I found a ton of excitement in Alteryx, was in the spatial analytics realm and the creation of macros. And so what I would do is go to school at 8:00 AM for my regular classes, and I was done at about 3:00. And I would put in two to three hours a day learning Alteryx Monday through Friday and just kind of treated it like it was another-- it was more coursework for me to explore.

ANNIE: 17:53

And what was that process of the finding an internship that really leverages skill sets that you've developed?

CAMERON: 18:00

Yeah. So I think the best way to find an internship where you can utilize your skill sets that you've developed over your educational time is, first and foremost, all of your networking resources. So lean on your network, right? You've just spent three years in school, and it's okay to lean on that network to reach out to professionals and really ask them questions about the professional world and about different opportunities at their company, right? The way that I learned about Alteryx was networking with a professional in my industry, and he ended up telling me about Alteryx. So I think first and foremost is to lean on your network. Second, I think there's many resources at universities. So there's the center for professional development resources or career services. And these are really great places to go to with your skill sets. These faculty members specialize in helping students find positions where they can leverage what they've learned over the prior four years.

CAMERON: 19:11

So today's students are graduating with technology insights that the professional world just hasn't seen before. And as a young professional, you have the ability to apply technologies that you picked up fairly quickly, and you're able to apply these to business problems with some of the most experienced and technically sound professionals that there are. So this not only enhanced your educational experience but as you move forward into your internship, and then eventually it enhances your full-time position. Not to mention it makes waking up and going to work every morning quite exciting.

ANNIE: 19:57

Yeah. That makes sense. And I think, Heather, you mentioned too even just your work with interns in your previous roles. What advice would you give to anyone who is seeking out an internship, and what they should be looking for in terms of developing their skills to prepare for that internship?

HEATHER: 20:14

Absolutely. Finding an internship, there are several routes. The most traditional is using LinkedIn to do job searches there. And just know that some companies start looking for their summer interns as early as September or October in the school year and really start positioning those folks that they're going to bring in over the summer. I am a big believer in helping people build their brand, which includes how to position yourself for an internship. And one of the most powerful things you can do to help yourself in your career at any stage is what I call the informational interview. [music] And we've all heard about the informational interview, and here is how it works.

HEATHER: 21:09

You are trying to build your network, and you want to know about what it would be like to, say, work in an airline, or what it would be like to work at a big tax firm like where Cameron works. Or what does it seem like to work in the consumer space? Don't hesitate to reach out to someone who has a job similar to what you might be looking for or you want to ultimately grow into. Reach out to them on LinkedIn blindly. I've done this myself when I was making a career change from semiconductors into data science. I reached out to people who did things similar to what I wanted to do, and I said, "Hey, do you have 30 minutes to talk to me?" And I would schedule 30 minutes. I would be very targeted with my questions. I would have three to five very specific questions, and I would not ask anything I could find on the internet about their company or general things. I wanted to know specifically about how they used data in their roles; how they used data in their company; what do they look for in employees?

HEATHER: 22:18

Now, I'm not looking for a job there necessarily. However, if I'm doing an informational interview, it opens their eyes to you as a candidate if you do that. And it could lead to a job. Almost every informational interview that I've done has led to the introduction to someone else. One of my last questions I recommend asking in an informational interview is, "Who else should I talk to?" Who else can you introduce me to to ask about this career or this profession? And then that opens up your network to one more person. And then I would say don't even be afraid to propose yourself as an intern. Reach out and say, "Hey, I have these skills. This is what your company does. This is how I think I can help you and your company. And would you have a summer internship opportunity open?" Sometimes companies will create an internship for a really motivated student who has taken the time to reach out to them. [music]

ANNIE: 23:24

Yeah. I agree. And I love pointing-- I'm glad you mentioned it already. I love pointing students to the blog that you wrote, the Use Your Alteryx Badassery to Grow Your Career and Brand, because I think that's so powerful for anyone and especially now to be able to advocate for the skills that they do have so that they can bring something to a workplace that maybe doesn't even exist yet. So I really appreciate that advice. So now I'm thinking just a little bit more about just careers. And we've talked a little bit about pivoting. We've talked about upskilling and preparing yourself for internships. I'm wondering now just about general career advice and just speaking more broadly-- because the coolest thing I think about data science and analytics and Alteryx as well is just that it is subject-area-agnostic in many ways. I mean, it can be used across subject areas. It can be used across career paths. And so I'm wondering from both of you, if you could bucket just general career advice for a student who might be graduating, about to graduate, what might you say to somebody who is in that position of looking for their first job?

CAMERON: 24:35

So if you're looking for your first job, I like to give three-- I like to say three things. And the first is to always stay motivated, right? And that's throughout your learning, throughout your job search. And when you land that internship or you start your full-time job, right, always stay motivated. And the second one is to always be curious and to always try new things. Alteryx for myself coming-- learning Alteryx as a student, Alteryx allows me to explore and to solve different problems in many different ways and especially in the professional world. So always stay curious. I think the third thing here is education, right, and not just self-education or learning but also educating others because this allows you to always move forward throughout your career in knowing that all of your prior responsibilities and tasks are being taken care of.

ANNIE: 25:45

Yeah. That definitely makes sense. Heather, I'm wondering if you have anything that's maybe different than what Cameron just said too about general career advice for students?

HEATHER: 25:55

Absolutely. I think I'll sum it up by starting to say, "Words matter." Now, what do I mean by that? It's how you think about and talk about what you do and what your value is. So let's say you're a student now. Instead of saying things like, "Yes, I completed that database project," more think about what the contribution would be, "I organized data into a schema that allows my business users to get to that data more effectively and get the answers they need." That was the same exact project right there. I built a database, or I enabled my business users. And start thinking about your contributions in terms of how they are bringing a positive impact to whatever it is the problem you're solving for your business, for your organization. Or even if it's just an academic exercise, there is always some kind of business problem underneath the academic exercise you're getting and how it can bring value to an organization.

HEATHER: 27:05

One thing I want to leave you with is what I call as the hallway conversation. Always be prepared for an answer in the hallway before or after a meeting because we're in online meetings these days, but sometimes we have a few minutes when people say, "How are you doing?" Have a thoughtful response about what you're doing that brings contribution to your project, your team, or your organization. For example, somebody might say, "Hey, Heather. How are you doing today?" "I'm doing really well. I finally got my workflow to work, which is going to bring these great reports for our executives." So it is I'm doing well, but it's in the context of the workplace, and I'm using it as an opportunity to let people know the value I'm bringing to the organization when I do that. So just be very thoughtful about how you're presenting yourself to others.

ANNIE: 27:59

Yeah. That's great. It's interesting because in the work that I've been doing with students, at least in the data science and the analytics space, there's a lot of pressure to do all of those things kind of going into that first job. And I think that that sometimes gets them really, really excited for that next opportunity, but then what I also have noticed is that sometimes an opportunity just might not feel right to that student. I'm wondering if you have any advice for students who are approaching either an internship or a potential job offer and what that might look like to evaluate whether or not your next step is the right thing for you, keeping all the advice that you already had in mind.

HEATHER: 28:43

When you're evaluating an opportunity, if you're fortunate enough to have multiple opportunities, I would say begin with the end in mind. What I mean by that is think about where you want to go in your career or where you think you want to go. If you're early in your career, that's going to change, and that's okay. But what aligns most with your values and your goals of the opportunities ahead of you? But let's say you only have one opportunity, and you're not sure it's a good fit. You're feeling a little uncomfortable about it. You're just not sure. Nothing really drastically wrong with it, not like an ethical issue or something like that which would be a red flag, but you're just not sure it's the right fit. If you don't have another opportunity, I would encourage you to take the opportunity that's in front of you if you don't want to be waiting for a long time and you do want to take advantage of some employment and find ways and see the value it's going to give you. I have yet to have an opportunity, even ones that I haven't necessarily wanted to do, not turn out to have some kind of value for my career. So a lot of times it's just how you frame it to yourself and being very intentional about looking for what you can get out of it and what you can give back, because anything you can give back, any contributions you can make are contributions you can talk about for moving into that next role the next time.

ANNIE: 30:16

I love that, I love the giving back aspect of everything that you just said. Cameron, what about you? Do you have any advice for just picking the right next best step for you as a career professional or even as a student?

CAMERON: 30:30

I think as a student the best way to look at this is as building blocks, right? So you've just spent so much time really setting a very strong foundation in something that you love to do, right? So think about it in terms of how can I further build up, right? How can I further my career with this opportunity? And again, it is okay if every opportunity isn't the right one for you, right? Again, it's a very iterative process, but as long as you're doing something that you enjoy, right, or something that you love to do, every opportunity is a learning experience.

HEATHER: 31:17

I would also like to encourage people to not be afraid of going for an opportunity that may feel like a stretch. There are times--

ANNIE: 31:27


HEATHER: 31:27

--I have hired people who are more enthusiastic and energetic and desiring to learn who may not have 100% of the skills over somebody who had all the right skills but didn't bring that work ethic or that enthusiasm or that energy to the job. I can teach you a lot of things, but that motivation and that attitude are things that you need to bring, and those things are so much more valuable sometimes than the hard skills.

ANNIE: 31:59

Yeah. That's so true. It's making me even reflect on my own just career journey, which I think when you're a student, you can't quite see how that's going to unfold as you move forward. And so I think that all of the advice both of you just shared about that next best step is really important for students. And I know that we're just about to wrap up, but I want to make sure that you're able to just say quickly-- if you were a young person, a student, or even a career changer and you were looking for your next opportunity and you had a basic knowledge of Alteryx, where might you go, at least on our Community site, for more insight, advice, guidance, learning? What is your number one favorite place to send people to when they're just learning Alteryx?

CAMERON: 32:51

So I love to send students directly to the Community where they can sign up for a username. And I direct students to the learning path videos. So again, these are very interactive learning programs that walk you through some of the basics and more advanced concepts in Alteryx allowing you to apply them in real time.

ANNIE: 33:15

And what about you, Heather?

HEATHER: 33:17

I would encourage people to go to the user groups and go to-- if you go into the User Group area and go to your geography, I would go in there and introduce yourself to people who are local to you and then join in on their user group meetings, whether they'd be virtual or in person, and start to build an in-real-life community as well. It might be virtual in real life for now but go to those meetings, and I would say introduce yourself in the community. Let them know where you are in your journey and that you're looking for encouragement and support. And there will be a bunch of people to jump in and support you. And that's even a place where I see people posting for jobs. And if you're looking for an internship, I wouldn't hesitate to introduce yourself there and say what you're looking for because you never know what might come out of that.

ANNIE: 34:08

Yeah. That's a great, great advice. I think we've actually seen some students who have gotten internships as a result of them putting themselves out there at user group meetings, which is really, really cool. And I think that our users, customers, everyone on Community is looking to support young people as best they can, which is really exciting. And I think the last question I have for both of you is, how young is too young or not young enough to learn the Alteryx skill set?

HEATHER: 34:35

Well, I personally think that statistics needs to start in elementary school. [laughter] Let me back up on that. I think that we're seeing subjects like statistics and working with data are starting to be introduced to kids younger and younger, as early as elementary school because it's becoming a core part of our world. I have a 14-year-old, and he is learning Alteryx. And I have heard of even younger kids learning Alteryx in our ACE community, their kids learning Alteryx. I think data skills can be learned from a very young age but definitely-- easily the middle school to high school age.

CAMERON: 35:19

I 100% agree, right? As data literacy becomes more prevalent at almost every level of education, it's very important to become aware and have exposure to various data concepts, whether they're simple and working your way up to advanced. So Heather, just like you, I have a little sister who is 13, and she is just taking up basics in computer coding. So it's definitely super important, right, things like HTML and basic Python and SQL.

ANNIE: 35:56

Yeah. And it's becoming so much more prevalent in their lives, and we see students younger and younger all the time trying to get involved, so it's very exciting. To wrap this up, I just like to thank both of you for joining us today and sharing some of your insight. I know that it will be hugely invaluable to students and educators looking to skill up with Alteryx or bring Alteryx to their students. So thank you both very much.

HEATHER: 36:22

Thank you. And I just want to say to anyone listening, feel free to reach out to me directly on the Community if you have any questions or want advice. My handle is @HeatherHarris. And I love connecting with people on Community. Please don't hesitate to reach out.

CAMERON: 36:38

Yes. And thank you so much for having me as well here, Annie. Same as Heather as well, so you can reach out to me with any questions, whether that's in the university environment or in the professional working world. My handle is @tug01519.

ANNIE: 36:56

Thank you. And I will make sure that we provide links to all these resources we discussed in the student and educator space and the Alteryx for Good section of Community. Again, thank you both so much. [music]

HEATHER: 37:08

Thank you. It's been a pleasure.

CAMERON: 37:10

Thank you.

MADDIE: 37:13

Thanks for listening. To learn more about the programs that Annie, Heather, and Cameron talked about, check out our show notes at community.alteryx.com/podcast where you can also connect with our guests directly. And be sure to subscribe to Alter Everything on your favorite podcast app and check out our playlists on the Alteryx YouTube page. Thanks. See you next time. [music]

ANNIE: 37:45

Heather and Cameron, you guys killed it. Thank you for answering my nebulous questions.

HEATHER: 37:50

Cameron has such a nice, soothing voice. [laughter] Just kind of brought me into a soothing like--

ANNIE: 37:55

I know.

HEATHER: 37:56

--tone too. It's so nice.

CAMERON: 37:58

I would say I have-- maybe behind the microphone, but I was quite nervous there for a little bit until we got going. So thank you so much for leading the conversation. And Heather, there were such wonderful answers. I pictured myself being a student a year and a half ago and thinking what you were saying. So it really is a great perspective.


This episode of Alter Everything was produced by Maddie Johannsen (@MaddieJ).
Special thanks to @andyuttley for the theme music track, and @jeho for our album artwork.